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I got nothing. This is an easy fold for me in your spot preflop. I'd need at least 2 others to call to give me enough implied odds and you aren't likely to see that after the flat from your position. Only way I would flat this hand HU is if I could secure position or if I was in the BB. In MP, if I had a read on villain that she was opening extremely wide, I could possibly 3-bet and represent huge strength while ensuring I was stealing position if I was called. In your position you've got nothing going for you and assuming a 25% opening range, your hand has about 37% equity. If any player after you decides to squeeze, you are up the creek. Pretty hand but an easy muck. IMO.
Just looked at the other players cards and BTN could have squeezed, holding the A as a blocker and having position. SB could have squeezed as well, though that would be more ambitious. The point is that you got a good result from a play that I can't analyze because I wouldn't make it. This is why we play the game though, right? If we all played the same it would be dull as all getout and be decided by who got the best cards.
BTW - the worse the players we are facing (loose or stations), the worse this flat becomes. Its an odd thing with mid-suited connectors and low to mid pairs. I've got to read more on the dynamics of this but the principle was put forward by Upswing so I'm sure it has at least some validity.
When I play a hand as a call that I usually 3bet, it feels bad. I know I have to call with this holding some so I did here. In retrospect I should have 3bet in this position. I left myself open to a bluff squeeze from a variety holdings such as A9o in this hand. The bet would isolate and discourage light squeezes. Then if I get a 4bet, it's heavily weighted towards value so an easy muck.
I floated with gutshot in position waiting to take the pot on a later street. The flop came all in my range as the caller. Less likely in her range as MP1 raiser.
I bluff raised the 6 bc I can have more 6s than she does. I can credibly rep a 6.
Her call is weak.
I'm blocking straights heavily. I think she checks 99 on river. The flush missed too.
In the end she has an overpair or nothing. There are many many non-pair overcards to open with.
So I called.
Also I dont have a spade making it more likely villain can have spades.
Interesting line and read. Curious as to what 6's you could have in your flatting range other than 66. 5/6s and 7/6s can't flat there. 7/8s is really wide to flat IMO but anything below that would be way too loose. A6s is an easy fold so I can't see what 6's flat and 66 doesn't raise there and possibly scare customer away. I can see many Tx hands that might raise there to protect from draws and over-cards but she's blocking JTs, leaving only 3 combos for you. Anyway, interesting hand. In that spot she had TT, an overpair or nada. Once you were in that deep and actually improved to 2nd pair you might as well make the call.
For ~5% of stacks, for me, that's an auto-fold pre-flop from middle position. I restrict playing suited connectors to (a) late position, from which I can better control the action post-flop and (b) generally to when I can get the 1st raise in pre-flop and have the lead going to the flop.
Once you get to the flop, I see floating on the flop, as the flop didn't connect with many A-x hands that opponent might have which you may be able to get to fold on the turn (requires knowledge of opponent to know how possible that line really is if opponent remains unpaired on the turn). But, IMO, the raise on the turn is kind of just being stubborn and hoping to be lucky on the river. That hyper-aggressive line MIGHT be slightly better in a cash game setting where you can reload and, maybe, earn some future action even if you lose this particular hand, but I think it is generally death in a no-rebuy tournament context.
Thanks @MAM4
Value your comments. They usually have a good logic running thru them.
Gonna have to disagee on this one. This is not hyper-aggressive for ME. Haha Had I been on the button, this is a 3bet cbet +90%.
78s is in my light 3bet range.
Putting pressure on villains in position is quite common for me whether I have a value hand or 2 napkins in front of me.
So 2 calls in a row is on the passive side for me. I've also raised gutters in position and check raised them OOP. This board wasnt good enough because the flop is benign.
As such the pressure forced villain into shoving K high.
As for things being different in tourneys, its short stack vs deeper stack poker. You can make moves in tourneys. The bet sizing is just different.
And lastly you should be making others make emotional decisions when fearing tournament death. Not the other way around.
I usually go out quickly or run deep unlike when I started poker.
(See my Champions Club statement)
Keep bringing the input.
Highfive
I get what you're saying, and maybe the difference in perspective is one of playing against bots vs. people (I always think first about it in terms of playing against people).
With opponent's pre-flop raise there coming from early position (UTG+2), I'm giving most opponents (except the loosest) credit for a hand. Once opponent follows through with bets on both the flop AND turn, then I really have to give opponent credit for an overpair, A-K, or two overcard spades (what they actually had). At that point, I wouldn't put a ton of stock in the turn raise being successful at getting a fold (which in fact it didn't). All that being true, IMO, you really can't feel good about your "equity when called" on the turn. You had the best case scenario (9 outs - three 7s, three 8s, and three 9s [not 9 of spades]), but a lot of the time you're probably no better than 4 outs (the four 9s). And, with the stack sizes at that point, if the bot has anything, I don't think you could expect to get a fold on the end if a blank comes, the bot checks, and you shove. So I think your fold equity on the river is probably slim.
IMO, if the bot had checked the turn, then I would have definitely seen betting into them when they might well be giving up on the had at that point. So it is perhaps a difference in our interpretations of how to read/react to the bot's turn bet.
Comments
I got nothing. This is an easy fold for me in your spot preflop. I'd need at least 2 others to call to give me enough implied odds and you aren't likely to see that after the flat from your position. Only way I would flat this hand HU is if I could secure position or if I was in the BB. In MP, if I had a read on villain that she was opening extremely wide, I could possibly 3-bet and represent huge strength while ensuring I was stealing position if I was called. In your position you've got nothing going for you and assuming a 25% opening range, your hand has about 37% equity. If any player after you decides to squeeze, you are up the creek. Pretty hand but an easy muck. IMO.
Just looked at the other players cards and BTN could have squeezed, holding the A as a blocker and having position. SB could have squeezed as well, though that would be more ambitious. The point is that you got a good result from a play that I can't analyze because I wouldn't make it. This is why we play the game though, right? If we all played the same it would be dull as all getout and be decided by who got the best cards.
BTW - the worse the players we are facing (loose or stations), the worse this flat becomes. Its an odd thing with mid-suited connectors and low to mid pairs. I've got to read more on the dynamics of this but the principle was put forward by Upswing so I'm sure it has at least some validity.
I floated with gutshot in position waiting to take the pot on a later street. The flop came all in my range as the caller. Less likely in her range as MP1 raiser.
I bluff raised the 6 bc I can have more 6s than she does. I can credibly rep a 6.
Her call is weak.
I'm blocking straights heavily. I think she checks 99 on river. The flush missed too.
In the end she has an overpair or nothing. There are many many non-pair overcards to open with.
So I called.
Also I dont have a spade making it more likely villain can have spades.
Interesting line and read. Curious as to what 6's you could have in your flatting range other than 66. 5/6s and 7/6s can't flat there. 7/8s is really wide to flat IMO but anything below that would be way too loose. A6s is an easy fold so I can't see what 6's flat and 66 doesn't raise there and possibly scare customer away. I can see many Tx hands that might raise there to protect from draws and over-cards but she's blocking JTs, leaving only 3 combos for you. Anyway, interesting hand. In that spot she had TT, an overpair or nada. Once you were in that deep and actually improved to 2nd pair you might as well make the call.
For ~5% of stacks, for me, that's an auto-fold pre-flop from middle position. I restrict playing suited connectors to (a) late position, from which I can better control the action post-flop and (b) generally to when I can get the 1st raise in pre-flop and have the lead going to the flop.
Once you get to the flop, I see floating on the flop, as the flop didn't connect with many A-x hands that opponent might have which you may be able to get to fold on the turn (requires knowledge of opponent to know how possible that line really is if opponent remains unpaired on the turn). But, IMO, the raise on the turn is kind of just being stubborn and hoping to be lucky on the river. That hyper-aggressive line MIGHT be slightly better in a cash game setting where you can reload and, maybe, earn some future action even if you lose this particular hand, but I think it is generally death in a no-rebuy tournament context.
Value your comments. They usually have a good logic running thru them.
Gonna have to disagee on this one. This is not hyper-aggressive for ME. Haha Had I been on the button, this is a 3bet cbet +90%.
78s is in my light 3bet range.
Putting pressure on villains in position is quite common for me whether I have a value hand or 2 napkins in front of me.
So 2 calls in a row is on the passive side for me. I've also raised gutters in position and check raised them OOP. This board wasnt good enough because the flop is benign.
As such the pressure forced villain into shoving K high.
As for things being different in tourneys, its short stack vs deeper stack poker. You can make moves in tourneys. The bet sizing is just different.
And lastly you should be making others make emotional decisions when fearing tournament death. Not the other way around.
I usually go out quickly or run deep unlike when I started poker.
(See my Champions Club statement)
Keep bringing the input.
Highfive
highfive,
I get what you're saying, and maybe the difference in perspective is one of playing against bots vs. people (I always think first about it in terms of playing against people).
With opponent's pre-flop raise there coming from early position (UTG+2), I'm giving most opponents (except the loosest) credit for a hand. Once opponent follows through with bets on both the flop AND turn, then I really have to give opponent credit for an overpair, A-K, or two overcard spades (what they actually had). At that point, I wouldn't put a ton of stock in the turn raise being successful at getting a fold (which in fact it didn't). All that being true, IMO, you really can't feel good about your "equity when called" on the turn. You had the best case scenario (9 outs - three 7s, three 8s, and three 9s [not 9 of spades]), but a lot of the time you're probably no better than 4 outs (the four 9s). And, with the stack sizes at that point, if the bot has anything, I don't think you could expect to get a fold on the end if a blank comes, the bot checks, and you shove. So I think your fold equity on the river is probably slim.
IMO, if the bot had checked the turn, then I would have definitely seen betting into them when they might well be giving up on the had at that point. So it is perhaps a difference in our interpretations of how to read/react to the bot's turn bet.
Anyway, that's just how I'd read it.