As of November 2021, the APT Forum is closed to new posts. Like with many online forums, usage has decreased in recent years. All previous posts are still available.
goober calling stations
low level stakes on line....venting as much as anything else, but i am truly working to bring my game to a level where i can support myself playing on line...start at the bottom...they call...and call...and call....and call...and call....6 handed cash games...anything i should do, or be doing, aside of, ya know...abc raise and fold stick to my guns kinda thing?....love the site, hope the admins and players are having a great and day...and have a great holiday season
danke
Dan Mahowny
Sign In to comment.
Welcome
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
Recently saw an article about playing with weaker players. It had two very good pieces of advice: First, play big pots with big hands and small pots with small hands. The point being that weak players often think they are pot committed before they actually are. However, if a player THINKS he is pot committed, HE IS. This truth helps to explain some of the calling you mentioned. Armed with this knowledge, you can work to keep pots small unless/until you have the nuts.
The second quote was "Fish don't fold two pairs, ever." The ideas here is that you shouldn't bloat pots trying to fold out hands at that level or above. So even if there is an obvious flush draw on the board, you will have a hard time getting the weak players to fold two pairs or better just by representing the flush.
thank you nytider...solid points i will incorporate....thanks again...i will keep you all apprised...
One of the things I'm trying to break down in live play is trying to categorize calling stations into two groups 1) those who will call pretty much any size flop bet with a flush or open end draw or marginal hand (because they think "I have two cards to come") but will then fold to a 70% pot or above bet on the turn and 2) those who will chase all the way no matter what. For the first type, I can pretty profitably bet both the flop and turn (as long as the obvious draw[s] did not get there.) For the second I now have to decide whether I want to keep the pot small by perhaps betting either the flop or turn but not both or really have then pay the price by overbetting knowing I'm going to win about 2 of 3 of my flop onward scenarios and 75%-80% of my turn bets. I just have to have the discipline to fold the river when it appears they have gotten there.
I value position even more on these calling stations than I do for the tight players who'll fold to big bets.
I also think nytider's advice is critical, you have to make max value of your huge hands. That offsets a lot of smaller losses when they drew out of you.
Whatever strategy you take, if you bet size well and allow calling stations to make unprofitable calls, sure you'll lose some memorable and irritating hands, but you should still be profitable in the long run in those scenarios. Might be worth trying to track some of these and see if overall you are making more than you lose.
As my wife likes to say if I ever get frustrated with calling stations: "don't tap the glass." We don't want these players to actually change their play, we want them to remain calling stations we just have to profitably exploit that.
Yes! one of the stupidest things I ever see at a live table or online is someone who fancies themselves a good player berating someone else for being a "donkey, fish, calling station, etc." There are two considerations I always make here:
First, if you are happy when the money goes in, you have no right to be upset with your opponent when they luck out on you. Most of the "You're just a stupid calling station" comments I see at the table are made when somebody sucks out with a gutshot or something like that. But if I am smiling when I get you to put all of your money in on a four-outer, I have no right to be upset with your play when you hit one of your outs. I may curse the deck, or my bad luck. But it isn't your fault. In fact, I want you to keep playing exactly that way.
Second, unless you are a dear friend or you're paying me to coach you, which no sane person would do, it is not my responsibility to help you get better. In fact, it is in my interest that you not improve. So I usually win or lose and don't offer a lot in the way of advice or analysis.
My 2 cents would be that you need to observe what range of hands they are going to call you down with. Obviously they are going to call down (or bet back into you) with two pair or better.
But if these are the kind of players that are going to call down three streets when the flop something like 2nd pair with a gut shot draw (e.g., holding Q-10 and the flop comes J-10-8), then you simply have to play top pair, decent kicker like a big made hand and bet out on every street to extract maximum value.
So in a nutshell, against true "calling stations" who will call down with a weaker range of holdings than they should, you need to be willing to play for stacks while holding something as routine as top pair, decent kicker. Statistically, they are going have those weaker holdings (because they play a lot of weak hands to start with) more often than they are two pair, a set, etc., so your top pair, decent kicker is probably going to be better than what they have more than 50% of the time. Plus, if they ever to bet/raise back into you as some point, you can be almost certain they have a monster hand and can safely fold the bottom part of your range with doesn't compete with what they are representing.
>
Now that's just mean!! (kidding)
Deep into day 3 of the WSOP main event this year I lost a pot where I had a Broadway straight vs 2 pair (a four outer. 91% favorite. it was HARD to smile!!)
The last two tournaments I've been knocked out of, I lost AA to AJs and KK to 66.
But these are NOT bad beat stories. I really do smile at the reality that I got my money in good in three big tournaments, and I can still imagine where I could have gone if my hands held up!