As of November 2021, the APT Forum is closed to new posts. Like with many online forums, usage has decreased in recent years. All previous posts are still available.
ABC Poker
APT is excellent to stop fish from being......fish. However, how does one progress to the next level?
I find myself making calls against APT advice or raising in position as that is what I would do in a live scenario. Pocket kings and someone bets as A on the board. A fold Is not always the best live for this, but APT ALWAYS suggests a fold
Additionally I win hands whilst going against APT advice, but no doubt this is bringing my IQ down. APT only ever recommends a bluff as a c-bet, but never a per flop bet in position in early stages. Should we be commended for winning hands we wouldn't win if following APT recommendations?
Sign In to comment.
Welcome
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I have wondered the same thing. My assessment of the "why":
The IQ is probably based on your equity against the opponent's estimated range.
The estimate of the opponent's range is based on a weighted-average of the bot's estimate of the likelihood of your opponent having certain holdings (e.g. nothing, top pair, overpair, set, etc.)
So somehow what would have to happen is a way for you to input your estimate of the likelihood of your opponent having certain holdings and having the IQ meter comparing the bot's estimate to yours.
I know that I am nowhere near enough of a programmer to even know where to begin to do all of that.
Also, my guess is that it would really slow down the # of hands played if you had to input your estimates on every hand.
My 2 cents here.....
I often find my own inclination is at odds with Daylian Cain's (he is favorite advisor), suggested course of action (even when the communal 28 advisors agree that folding is the ONLY answer). So I give it a shot... and, sometimes, I succeed. That's the wonder of practicing where there isn't any $$$ risk involved. I get the benefit of an experience that I may recall in a future situation. That takes me up a level!
It seems, as Allen has stated elsewhere, that practising against the bots, reading books and articles, running simulations with software tools etc, all contribute to my experience matrix when it comes time to get the chips in. That's why I invested in APT. For guidance, not rote answers!
I don't know whether the opposing bot's play style is part of what the advisors factor in. I'd hope so but in real life I, personally, don't have a clue about them (I mean my opposition) when I sit down. Playing with names hidden on APT sorta/kinda simulates this for me. Same thing happens when new/unknown players appear in the APT daily events. Eventually I get a read but I try to be a bit tentative til I do.
The bottom line for me is how I do against real players, which goes back to comments I've made in another thread about playing the APT daily tournaments. I know that APT has helped me to, rapidly regain, previous, but long dormant, skillz.
Hope I wasn't too longwinded..... I can't help myself sometimes
Syn
Thanks Allen. That was more than helpful, it was excellent!! Makes me glad to be a subscriber.
Great man
So a successful bluff (or even semi-bluff) would lower your poker IQ score, since you had the worst of it when you put your money down?
No, the opposite. Your opponent had better cards and you got them to fold. They wouldn't have done that if the cards were face up, so they lost their equity in the pot by folding, and you won it. That would raise your poker IQ.
Note that a successful double barrel bluff would also help. The first one would lower it by the amount of your bet less equity in the whole pot (because they called your bet with the better hand),, but then when the opponent eventually folded, you win their entire equity.
OK, that makes more sense.
I tried an "any two will do" session of about 150 hands at KGB level (not playing every hand, but playing most/all hands from CO or BTN), and I had a winning session, albeit with large fluctuation (had to do a second buy-in but ended over 200k) -- and without a big-time suckout win or anything.
And my Preflop IQ was 71 (4%)! Nice! Good thing I made up for it on later streets...
this was perfect Allen....I needed this long breakdown to help me understand more about this amazing site and how to better use it to increase my skills
That's helpful. Thanks.
I assume the IQ score also takes pot odds into account? How does it handle implied pot odds.
If villain and I each have 100 BB stacks, and villain raises 2 BB with AA, and I have 33 and call, does it count that as correct?
It does take into account pot odds, but not implied odds because it is highly debatable whether those exist or work out in any given player's favor in NL Hold'em - and they definitely don't exist at a single decision point. Now if you happen to take advantage of those 'implied odds' later on in the hand, you will benefit from that in your IQ score at that point in time.
In your example, your opponent is thrilled if you call with 33 when he has AA - you have made a mistake in an "All cards face up" sense. Down the line if you flop a set and he somehow manages to lose his stack with a single pair, then he has made a huge mistake and your poker IQ score will benefit from that. But the reality is you only hit the set about 1 out of 8 times, sometimes he improves more than you and you get stacked, and sometimes a player might continue on after the flop and lose more even when they don't improve their low pair. There's no way to objectively predict that at a point in time, so pot odds are considered in correctness of decision, but not any future possibilities. In the long run, the IQ score works out.
Good explanation. Thank you.